DC Editoral wins either way in the end. And we of course the fans are the losers like always.
If it is Cass and it suppose to be a cameo….Editoral notice this and made a force recoloured her white and gave her the same colours of Stephanie Brown.
If it wasn’t Cass to begin with, they stole the…
It if IS supposed to be her they miscoloured someone Asian and made her super-white. Offensive.
If it’s NOT supposed to be her they took away a costume designed especially for HER by Morrison and Burnham (down to the cape) and gave it a new character/throw away character. Offensive.
This is either a case of massive trolling by DC Editorial (let’s face they don’t like the character) or massive insensitivity and neglectful oversight by DC Editorial.
In EITHER case its offensive a slap in the face to a character with a large fanbase (and Didio knows it) who carried the Batgirl title for 73 issues (still longer than the supposedly “iconic” Barbara Gordon ever did) and they should be called out on it!
Cassandra Cain is one of the best milestone characters that DC ever had. Diverse WoC with disability, dyslexia. One of the most successful Asian Superheros, and DC only a select few of them. Had strong sales, even when it was cancelled. We are talking about mid 30 000 here, which is more sales than half of the New 52 Titles. She even beat some ‘AAA’ characters in their own series in sale sometimes. Wonderwoman, Hawkgirl, Green Arrow, Aquaman.
She had the traits and the backstory of an antihero, but no, she is in fact a hero and tries every hard to still be one. She has character flaws, which makes well rounded. She is an important member of Batfamily.
We are know the person of the mishandling and mistreatment of Cassandra and Stephanie, lets not forget her. We know why Barbara Gordon is place so high in his pedestal. That person is, Dan Didio
Seriously I do like enjoy New 52 Barbara Gordon, but all the stuff that made her so special is gone. Editoral made her so physically perfect that she stops wearing glasses.
Dan Didio is the guy who really wanted to kill Dick Grayson Nightwing in Final Crisis, and almost did. This is the same guy who was in charge in OYL and made an Editoral Mandate to turn Cassandra Evil. This the same guy who ran WAR GAMES and made a Editoral Mandate to killed Stephanie Brown. Which by the way is a known fact that some of the writers involved rally against it.This is the same guy who really want the rape of Sue subplot in Identity Crisis because he wanted impact.
I am also sick and tired when creators who would defend Dan Didio with all the stuff hes done to characters we love.
Honestly I would love any creator to call him out shit hes done. But lets face facts, its not going to happen.
If the people who are reading this and like this…actually reblog.
Yes. In terms of actual hard sales Cassandra Cain is the most successful Asian hero (male OR female) in DC’s entire history. 73 issues, 6+ years and still with healthy sales when she was canceled (to make way for a Batwoman title that never happened and for the Evil!Cass storyline).
Why, especially with the dearth of successful non-white heroes in DC and successful MODERN (late 90s) creations, they treated the character literally like crap is beyond me.
• Answer Post
Anonymous asked ...
Don't expect bright and colorful for the SHAZAM/Captain Marvel movie. Since the New 52 reboot and the reintroduction of "Shazam", Geoff Johns has turned the character into just another brooding, angst-ridden depressionfest. Billy Batson himself is now a rude, bickering, bullying teenager that's a far cry from the original good-natured character.
I know. I now call the character “Billy Doucheson” to separate from pre-reboot Billy. Which makes you wonder why the Wizard would pick THIS kid to hold the powers of the gods. In the old story you understood, because Billy was naturally pure, kind, idealistic. There ARE people like that. Geoff Johns doesn’t think so. That kind of character is apparently not “relatable” to the modern audience (tell that to the people who write Mabel Pines Gravity Falls on Disney, Geoff!)
Johns (Chief Creative Officer at DC and the go-between for the comics/movies sides) also has a jones for the Black Adam character so I expect most of a Shazam movie will be about him and not Billy.
The Wizard chose Billy in the New 52 literally because he was the only one avaliable at the time. As for the new Shazam series…
…I don’t know, i think that it has its moments. Like, it seems to be centred around the idea that Billy has been left cynical by the realities of living in foster care due to a string of bad or disinterested foster homes, with him slowly coming to like his new family and become like his comicbook counterpart as he develops. Plus their version of Mary Marvel seems a lot more in-line with the character than the near-parody she had become prior to being turned evil repeatedly.
It’s like with Korra, people didn’t like her when she first appeared either, it seemed. People said that she was arrogant and impulsive (which is true, but justified in-story), but by the time she’d gotten to season three she seemed more universially popular due to the character development she’d undergone.
I don’t know, I know that there is such a thing as bad character development… but it kind of seems sometimes that people kind of want characters to start out one way and just stay that way.
I agree that the Mary Marvel (does she even have that name anymore?) is more in-line with the traditional version of Mary (not the dumb-as-a-brick bratty “Black” Mary Marvel that DC trotted out for three years even as writen by Geoff Johns and Jerry Ordway in JSA!), but after the mess DC made with certain characters pre-reboot (I’m thinking Jason Todd and Roy Harper) the only way to “fix” them is pretty much to pretend none of that stuff happened. In that sense the reboot HAS been gone for certain characters like Mary who needed it (most of DC characters though? No).
What I didn’t like about Billy Doucheson was the reasons Geoff gave for changing Billy’s original personality. Because it was not “realistic” for an orphan living on the streets to be anything other than cynical and a punk. That people (i.e. males 18-35, DC’s core demographic) couldn’t “relate” to a boy who was naturally kind and optimistic even though people around him are not (although there are people like that in history - like Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia or Pier Giorgio Frassati of Italy).
Instead of having an origin where Billy is chosen because out of all the billions of people who have walked on Earth since Black Adam’s fall (including Superman and Wonder Woman and other heroes), the Wizard chose this young boy because HE was special, Geoff Johns basically just gives “new 52” Billy Green Lantern Kyle Rayner’s old origin (or is it still his origin? who can tell these days) where a superpowered being just sees him in a alley and says “you’ll have to do” without knowing anything about him and gives him godlike powers.
Which, you know, is a sucky origin for a long-term superhero - and now DC has used it for two different heroes in different franchises! And that’s my main complaint.
Black Adam, a long time Captain Marvel/Shazam villain, is effectively an evil version of the character, being a regular person who gets superpowers when they say a magic word (the Captain Marvel comics had at these three villains who did that, including Adam). Depending on what production he’s in, BA could effectively be anything from just being a thuggish criminal who lucked out on superpowers, to a Namor-ish anti-hero attempting to do the right thing, only for things to fall apart due to outside influences.
Just prior to the DC reboot, for example, BA was originally a superhero called Teth Adam back in the times of ancient Egypt, who fell from grace after horribly murdering a similarly ancient version of Metamorpho who killed Adam’s wife and children. In the present he managed to overthrow the dictator that had settled in his former country, even ruling it by himself until the events of 52drove him into being a straight up supevillain once again.
Considering Johnson’s work as the Scorpion King, I am curious to see where this might be going. Though the fact that the Shazam movie apparently WON’T be part of the DC Cinematic Universe is a touch disappointing, as it’s being made by New Line Entertainment, rather than WB like Man of Steel and the like.
"It feels to me like Shazam will have a tone unto itself,” he explains. “It’s a DC comic, but it’s not a Justice League character, and it’s not a Marvel comic. The tone and the feeling of the movie will be different from the other range of comic book movies.”
The usual superhero-movie cone of silence prevents Emmerich from addressing any of the plot elements of Shazam directly. But when asked where the movie would fall on the superhero-movie spectrum (from dark and gritty to light and peppy), Emmerich does allow that the movie “will have a sense of fun and a sense of humor. But the stakes have to be real.”
Well of course it couldn’t be in the “DC Cinematic Universe” (which I won’t believe till I see it), a character like Captain Marvel/Shazam/Billy Batson and Mary and Freddy DON’T WORK in a dark, gritty world (something Dan Didio and Jim Lee STILL don’t understand in the comics side). If you do it they just come off as cheesy and dumb.
My one fear is they make this movie more about The Rock/Black Adam (his rise and fall) since he will be the “star” when the story of Shazam is ultimately about little Billy Batson, the Sir Galahad of comic heroes. Black Adam is merely a supporting player to Billy’s story.
OF COURSE THEY WOULD LET ANOTHER WHITE BENCHED CHARACTER BACK BEFORE CASS. IF THEY DECIDE TO BRING HER BACK.
I AM MORE OR LESS HAPPY MISFIT EXIST
BUT IF THEY MAKE MISFIT INTO THE NEXT BATGIRL IN THE FUTURE AND STILL HAVEN’T BROUGHT BACK CASS…..
SERIOUSLY FUCK THIS
Snyder wants Cass in Issue 1 of the reboot: Can’t have her. Snyder wants Cass in an important storyline he’s created just for her (just like Gates of Gotham was originally a Cass-story). DC says no. Harper Row is created to take her place. Fine.
Stephanie Brown s brought back due to fan pressure. Returned as Spoiler, backstory intact (though her history is gone). Understandable. Cass is next right?
JULIA FRIGGIN’ PENNYWORTH is brought back from the 80s Bronze Age even though no one remembered her, no one asked for her and no one said - you know what Alfred needs? A daughter.
And now Misfit? A character that sharply divided fans and who even her creator, Gail Simone, said was not a good fit in the Bat-books because of her having super-powers (FYI to those who don’t know: Misfit/Charlie was DC/Didio’s first choice to take the Batgirl mantle from Cass and was it was only after Gail said no they moved to Steph) is back?
WTF? The most successful (in terms of sales) Asian heroine (or hero for that matter) in terms of sales in the history of DC Comics. One of the few people of color in the entire Bat-Family (and the only one adopted by Bruce Wayne). Also one of the few successful (along with Kyle Rayner and I would argue Connor Hawke) non-Superman characters created by DC in the Xtreme 90s-era to have a lasting fanbase. Where is she?
Nowhere? This despite virtually every single person who has been writing the Bat-books before and after the reboot (except perhaps Peter Tomasi, who was Adam Beechan’s editor and had a hand in Evil!Cass) going on record as wanting to write her AND having stories for her.
Explain someone. Tell how me keeping her out of the comics ISN’T personal for a certain someone *cough*Dan Didio*cough* (which is the only explanation that makes logical sense). I’d really love to hear alternative explanations.
I mean JULIA PENNYWORTH before Cassandra Cain? Really?
In the show Young Justice, there were frequent appearances by the journalist Cat Grant, who would often provide exposition for the audience through her reports on the current situation, such as the Lex Luthor-hosted peace conference between South and North Korea… I mean, South and North Rhelasia. This position was kind of phased out in season two though, with G. Gordon Godfrey’s character providing a more slanted view of the proceedings.
Orginating in the Superman comics, Cat was a journalist at the Daily Planet who befriended Clark despite her antics getting on the nerves of Lois and Perry White. A recovering alcoholic and single mother, she vanished from the comics following her son’s murder by Toyman/a robot that thought he was Toyman, only to come back with breast implants and a more flirtatious attitude.
Lois implies that this change in appearance and behaviour was Cat’s way of dealing with her son’s death, though it seems that explanation has fallen by the way-side after the reboot, where she just seems… kind of conceited and shallow.
There are a lot of things wrong with the DCnU but it did give DC a chance to reboot characters that THEY (for no known reason) had trashed. Exhibit A is Mary Marvel, Exhibit B is Roy Harper (and possibly Jason Todd) and Exhibit C maybe Cat Grant. It’s hard to remember for those who just saw her as a plastic surgery fixated Supergirl-hating mouthpiece for Morgan Edge’s WGBS (aka the guy she and Clark sent to JAIL before Geoff Johns got a hold of her) but she was originally created in the early years post-Crisis as an attractive, sexy professional reporter (and single mother) who was VERY interested in Clark Kent and didn’t like Superman and served as a counterpoint to Lois Lane who at that time was fixated on Superman and she and Clark were not close. Cat was created to show how a normal woman could prefer Clark to Superman. Then her son was killed in a tasteless storyline (that even the Editors barely remembered) and she was hauled out of a limbo to be a superficial antagonist to Supergirl (back in an era when Supergirl was not particularly likable herself). The whole “Cat was changed because of the death of her son” was very much a reaction to fan complaints about what was done to the character for no known reason.
I had to talk about this. I can’t say enough about the writer’s decision to give Lois the truth about Clark’s identity, especially early in the movie. I mean, they pretty much erased the ‘triangle for two’ which has been the mainstay of their ‘first meeting’ for over 75 years. That’s a long time. Lois finds out eventually (usually on her own), but we won’t have this crazy back and forth of ‘when will she find out’ scenario which drove everyone crazy over the past I don’t know how many years that Superman/Lois Lane have been live action.
NO MORE!! Thank you Snyder and Goyer or whoever made that game-changing decision. You deserve all the awards!
And of course the comics books (Didio/Lee) felt the played out “triangle for two” (which even Shuster/Seigel wanted to get rid of) was JUST THE THING the DCnU needed. So much so that when George Perez started hinting that Lois did indeed know Clark was Superman in the new 52 when the reboot began his editors nixed it and dropped all references to it.
• Text Post
Adam Beechen himself responded to one one of my Tumblr responses about Cass Cain. Makes me feel more than a little bad about it that people are still on him about a “8 year old comic” (and by “people” I mean me).
I tweeted him back that I actually liked some of his Teen Titans Go and JLU work and that most people actually blamed Editorial and not him. It’s just that his “8 year old comic” was the start of 8 years where Cass Cain has been declared “toxic” by DC Editorial for some reason and they have come up time and time again with reasons to slight the character (yes because all 4 male Robins needed their own BOOKS in the reboot but Batman’s adopted daughter who is a WoC in a mostly white world - and the one protege most like him - has still not existed two years into the DCnU). None of which is Beechen’s fault - but if we have to go back to when it all started it all goes back to that “8 year old comic”.
Also, in Beechen’s defense, he has always manned up and taken responsibility for Evil!Cass even though we all know it was an Editorial decision handed to him (even if he decided the Dragon Lady direction). No one at DC Editorial (like Beechen’s editors, Eddie Berganza and Peter Tomasi who still work at DC) has ever taken responsibility or even talked about it. Didio has even jokingly blamed Beechen as the man who “ruined Cass Cain” at conventions (and we all know it was ultimately Didio’s decision). Now that’s shady.
• Chat Post
DC: Wonder Woman is too difficult to find a movie audience for-
Marvel: YO YOU LIKE BLACK WIDOW? HERE SHE IS IN THE NEXT CAPTAIN AMERICA MOVIE WITH A TON OF SCREENTIME AND MAJOR ASSKICKING SKILLS
DC: We can't allow the lesbians in Batwoman to get married in the comic, sorry.
Marvel: HEY GUESS WHAT WE'RE GONNA FEATURE A GAY WEDDING ON THE COVER OF AN X-MEN ISSUE
DC: The new direction for storytelling needs to be dark, gritty, mature and cynical.
Marvel: DUDE CHECK IT OUT LOKI GOES SPEED DATING IS THAT NOT THE BEST SHIT EVER
DC: After years of rumors, the Superman/Batman movie is finally coming, but with a new actor and suit for Batman and MAYBE a cameo from Wonder Woman.
Marvel: PHASE 2 MOTHERFUCKERS EVERYONE IS IN EVERYONE'S MOVIE AND THERE AIN'T NO STOPPIN US NOW
DC: We can try to add maybe one or two 'people of color' to our lineup...maybe...
Marvel: NEW MS MARVEL THAT'S MUSLIM AMERICAN, BITCHES.
DC: We feel no problem with Batman's vengeful personality being like wet cardboard.
Marvel: NEW LATINA GHOST RIDER WHO SEEKS VENGEANCE WHILE TAKING HIS AWEET LIL BRO FOR ICE CREAM
DC: We can't mention any superhero titles in our movies, that's ridiculous.
Marvel: FUCK YEAH YOU WANT A RACOON VOICED BY BRADLEY COOPER WITH A GIANT GUN? YOU WANT VIN DIESEL PLAYING A TREE? AMY FUCKING POND PLAYING A SEXY BALD SPACE PIRATE? HERE YOU FUCKERS GO
DC: Our fanbase is mostly white males, I'm sure our focus is-
Marvel: NEW SHE HULK LINE WHERE SHE GOES TO COURT THEN SAVES NEW YORK
Shazam vol. 1 by Geoff Johns (writer), Gary Frank (artist), Brad Anderson (colorist), Nick J. Napolitano and Dezi Sienty (letterers)
Shazam has had a very confusing and tortured publishing history. The character was originally conceived as Captain Marvel in 1940 by Fawcett comics. The…
“I realize that in our current world, the idea of an upbeat orphan seems more than a bit antiquated”
As a commentary on the world today and the comics world in particular is particularly sad even if it is true. Johns’ decision to turn Billy Batson into Billy Doucheson just because modern readers might not relate to an orphan who is by his nature, optimistic, funny, heroic and kind removes a large part of the reason the Shazam mythos did not fall by the wayside (even if never got the sales it did in the Golden Age). Billy was chosen by the Wizard BECAUSE he was the best of humanity, after thousands of years, and billions of people who have walked the Earth the Wizard decides it is this particular child (tellingly not Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman or Green Lantern) who is the one person who can harness the power of the Gods without ever being corrupted (a plot point that would figure majorly in the Underworlds Unleashed mini-series where Neron seeks Billy’s soul not Superman’s as everyone else thinks). Giving Billy the origin of Kyle Rayner - basically some magical being randomly says “you’ll do” and he becomes a super-hero is a major disservice to the character.
"Once upon a time… there was a girl. Born to be something unlike the world had ever seen. A dancing hunter. But she didn’t want that. And so, she ran away. Hungry and desperate, she found salvation in the dark flap of wings. She thought she was a bat. But she came to find she wasn’t that either. She was only a runaway girl… named Cain."
She thought she was a bat. But she came to find she wasn’t that either.
I won’t lie. This ending gets worse every time I read it.
To come back around to what I was saying in the first post for this issue, it’s always unfortunate when a series, for whatever reason, is being cut short. It just is a sad set of circumstances, especially in long-form comics like superheroes where, for the most part, they are written with the mindset that this character and their stories must continue forever with no ending.
But when a series does end, and that is such a possibility in the market today that it should at least be in the back of every writer’s mind as they construct their narratives, it has the responsibility of being the last glimpse of our character and their story for the knowable future.
Unless fans really enjoy a particular series or are neurotic to the point I am and go back and reread things ad nauseam, this will be the last impression someone will have of a character and the series as a whole. This will be their final address of the series.
Ideally, you would want the ending of a story to reinforce the beliefs and themes of the character while closing up any remaining threads. You can end it by promising future adventures in the same vain of this one are always a possibility for the readers to dream up on their own. You can make the promise that, even if it’s not with this character, their legacy and beliefs will live on. You can even give a cathartic ending where the final stand for what the book believed in takes everything and more from the character, leading to a sad but inspiring death for what they believed in.
But this? This? This kills everything I love about Cassandra Cain and Batgirl as a series.
And that’s just a cruel image to end the relationship of Cass and Shiva on, too. Just. Agh. I hate everything about this. More and more every time.
Cassandra Cain is Batgirl. No one understands what that even means more than her, and it’s insulting to the series to end on a note so cruel and demeaning of that belief. I wish it had ended almost any way but this.
The only way it makes sense for me is that Anderson Gabrych (who obviously loved the character) was told by Editorial to put Cass in the worst place possible and to have her stop being Batgirl (remember the series was canceled to make for a Batwoman one that NEVER happened and DC didn’t think there should be two Bat-females at the same time so they obviously planning already to make her a villian when this was ending) and Gabrych was trying to do that with at least as much lee-way as possible to keep Cass as a hero.
Or else it just sucks.
I desperately want to believe that Gabrych had as little to do with these decisions as possible, but it’s just… such a mean spirited way to end the series one way or another, y’know? Like, even if he was told exactly that he had to have Cass quit being Batgirl, it just feels like this was the absolute worst way for it to have happened.
I also find it ironic that Cass, a Eurasian woman with a very distinct costume design unlike any of the other Batgirls before or since, was supposedly going to confuse fans too much if she was working in tandem with Kate Kane who was an adult, red-haired, white female hero with a more traditional, free-haired costume. Yet in the New52 we have two and only two (currently) female characters with the bat symbol and they’re considered to be individual and unique from each other with no way they could be confused by the fans — and they’re both white, red-haired females that are nearly the exact same body type and the biggest different in their costumes is color scheme.
Yeah, I don’t… I don’t know. I genuinely like Gabrych’s writing most of the time. I like the first arcs of his run a lot and he wrote an amazing Cass in his time on Detective, but it’s hard for me to see this ending and see anyway that Cass’ character was supposed to be salvageable?
A lot of that is just knowing what was to come, I guess. I don’t know. I’m not big on reading up interviews and things most of the time to get a feel for the environment behind the books. So I have no idea what he’s said, if anything, about his time with the title. I tend to judge stuff based on the outcome. So it’s hard for me to make sense of this with someone I had seen get Cass before. It leaves me just kind of disheartened. :(
I don’t think Gabrych has ever commented like Horrocks has on his “issues” writing Cass. He pretty much dropped off the face of the comics writing world. I just remember that when he WAS writing Cass he used to frequent the DC Message Boards and his love of the character shown through and he was very excited about writing her and liked fan feedback.
As for the way Cass was treated to the way Barbara was treated, yeah it was garbage. Fun facts: Kate Kane is a white redhead because the initial design for a Batwoman character (with a suit and in-costume hairstyle that looks very much like the one Kate rocked when she debuted) was designed for Alex Ross FOR Barbara when DC toyed with the idea of making her Batwoman (this was during the Kingdom Come-era I think). So when they came up with Kate Kane they kept the look, red hair and all (and let the writers create the backstory).
Also when DC made Stephanie Batgirl, sidestepping the only WOC in the inner ranks of the Bat-family and a character (Cass) who was created purposely to diversify the Bat-titles, it led to a situation where for several years Batgirl, Wonder Girl, and Supergirl were ALL blue-eyed blond white teenagers. It was like an Aryan wet dream or something. Which means that they actually made the three most well known DC heroines (after WW) LESS DIVERSE in terms of race and looks than they were even in the 60s-70s (when you had a redheaded Batgirl, blonde Supergirl and brunette Wonder Girl). DC Editorial of course never seemed to realize this even though the unfortunate racial implications were clear to the readership.